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BENNO HANSEN
Alive in Copenhagen, Denmark
Articles Posted: 119; Links Seeded: 1484
Member Since: 2/2006
Member Since: 2/2006
17 Comments
PrintVirgin Mary anal sex isn't blasphemy
News Type: Opinion — Fri Apr 7, 2006 12:11 PM EDT
The satirical image in question. Blasphemous? (Copyright T-Shirt Hell.com)
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The Muhammad Cartoon Crisis still lives: In case you assumed people had settled down and moved on to important things like global warming or bombings of innocents you better think twice. Not only is the Sudan government actively using it to divert attention from their local strifes but in Denmark the Copenhagen police lawyer have had to decide if he could take a shop owner to court for selling a t-shirt. Yes, that was "court" and "t-shirt" in the same sentence.
The t-shirt depicts the Christian figure Virgin Mary, mother of Jesus in case you forgot, and has the controversial text "Mary Was Only A Virgin If You Don't Count Anal" printed. It's made and sold by an on-line shop. A shop somewhere in Denmark was selling it just like about 1000 shops around Europe. I'm sure people either find it funny or childish in which cases they either laugh or ignore it. So far. Because now that we've had the controversy over the Muhammad Cartoons some people are a little tense. A Catholic priest walks by the store and immediately starts convincing the store owner to remove the shirt from the shelves which he then does! Of course, the manufacturers are still printing them and 999 other stores are still selling them.
In Denmark we have a blasphemy paragraph. (Yes, it's year 2006.) A Muslim politician, Marwan Zobi (representing Socialists Peoples Party whom I didn't think were worrying themselves about blasphemy!?), asked the police to trial the shop for blasphemy. This is (roughly) what police lawyer Jens Rasmussen has just said:
"I don't think that saying Virgin Mary should have had a sex life including behaviour of the mentioned kind is to be considered mocking and subject to trial by the paragraph about blasphemy."
(For that quote alone I just had to type in a Newsvine article. Link to source in Danish)
Some Newsviners may think me welcoming blasphemy in general is inconsistent with my bashing of the Muhammad Cartoons. It isn't. I agree with the Nepalese Socialists press release: blasphemy is good in the sense that it's anti-religion, but the Muhammad Cartoons were part of an Islamophobic crusade on Middle Eastern people. Big difference. Christians saying "if you can't mock Muhammad, you can't mock Virgin Mary" are simplifying the issue. I can mock Virgin Mary because essentially she's part of an ideology indoctrinating my culture. Muhammad is part of someone else's culture so it must be someone else's job to mock him.
I'd like to own the Mary t-shirt myself. So far I only own one with an old rune carving hailing fertility and the text "heathens have better sex" on it. (Well, actually the words in Danish are a little more illustrative than that but we'll let that part rest.) It's probably better to say what one likes in ones own personality than saying what one doesn't like about other people's personalities anyway. Or perhaps this Virgin Mary t-shirt is really a Catholic counter argument to my heathen t-shirt!?
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- Groups: Activism, Atheism, Bloody Skull Society, Hot-Chicks, Left of Center, SexVine, Silly and Stupid
- Regions: Denmark
- Public Discussion (17)
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7.1
{"commentId":89790,"authorDomain":"servetus"}
I can mock Virgin Mary because essentially she's part of an ideology indoctrinating my culture. Muhammad is part of someone else's culture so it must be someone else's job to mock him.
So, let me see if I get you right, you would immediately issue a fatwa against any Buddhist who dares to make a joke on Mary, right?
Come on Benno, that is a sick joke, whether you are following the advice of Nepalese Socialists or not.
{"commentId":89790,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"servetus"}
- 1 vote
#1 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 2:26 PM EDT{"commentId":89908,"authorDomain":"benno"}
{"commentId":89917,"authorDomain":"servetus"}
Yes! It is (a sick joke).
{"commentId":89917,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"servetus"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":91828,"authorDomain":"benno"}
{"commentId":93744,"authorDomain":"servetus"}
But no I wouldn't issue any 'fatwas'.
You are commenting from a religious paradigm which I'm essentially opposed to.
You obviously missed the irony and provocation in my comment: fatwa is something that only Muslims, but neither Christians nor Buddhists apply. It was applied, for instance, to Salman Rushdie because of his Satanic Verses.
The whole point was to make you realize how untenable your position (kind of "let everybody mock only one's own saints") is.
I think gowster (comment #3) summed it up: "you never pick on someone's mother".
In Italy we have a saying:
Scherza coi fanti e lascia stare i santi [make jokes on young men but not on holy men (and their mothers - may we add)]
{"commentId":93744,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"servetus"}
{"commentId":93748,"authorDomain":"benno"}
{"commentId":93753,"authorDomain":"servetus"}
So what does the "blasphemy paragraph" apply to?
{"commentId":93753,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"servetus"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":89980,"authorDomain":"mott"}
@ Benno
I can mock Virgin Mary because essentially she's part of an ideology indoctrinating my culture. Muhammad is part of someone else's culture so it must be someone else's job to mock him.
How exactly do you define your culture? There are innumerable factors which contribute to your values, norms, and views. If you're from the United States, you are part of an extremely diverse culture. Personally, I disagree with both the t-shirt and the cartoon of Muhammad. They both demonstrate a lack of respect for the things other human beings value and are unnecessary. That said, disrespectful people will never cease to exist...I have no right to go kill everyone because of it.
{"commentId":89980,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"mott"}
- 2 votes
#2 - Sat Apr 8, 2006 6:41 PM EDT{"commentId":90331,"authorDomain":"benno"}
{"commentId":91795,"authorDomain":"danish"}
You can get a mouthful of knuckle soup for just saying va fangulo, and I wouldn't want to travel with anyone wearing the profane Virgin Mary t-shirt. Would call them nuts, just as I think the Mohamed-cartoon defenders must have lost their marbles. One of the reasons I am alive today is because I never did go up to those Hells Angels and P on a vest with their wings on it. It just didn't seem like a good idea, even though I was drunk at the time.
{"commentId":91795,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"danish"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":91859,"authorDomain":"benno"}
{"commentId":93313,"authorDomain":"gowster"}
This is blasphemy. The argument is also theologically screwed up. Mary's virginity is not considered just physical but it also means that she never experienced the sensual pleasure that comes from sexual activity nor did she ever think of performing those acts. She is a virgin through and through. You apparently aren't Christian if you find this shirt amusing or any other heathen t-shirt you may own, otherwise I suppose you'd feel some guilt about wanting to own one of these. Remember not only will you tick off Christians, if that is your intent; chances are you'll tick off her Son too. I would rather stay on His good side; you never pick on someone's mother!
{"commentId":93313,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"gowster"}
- 1 vote
#3 - Tue Apr 11, 2006 7:29 PM EDT{"commentId":93318,"authorDomain":"danish"}
"you never pick on someone's mother"
That is actually a good point. It's part of a pancultural codex, and one most people are wise never to forget.
{"commentId":93318,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"danish"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":93620,"authorDomain":"mott"}
I'm a Christian myself, and obviously am not fond of the t-shirt (nor do I find it amusing in any way). However, I'm not exactly sure why you're so surprised that some of those who do not believe in Christianity's doctrine would want to make crude jokes about it. It's blasphemy to you and me. The worst they might consider it is disrespect or unkindness. Is this the first time you've had someone make fun of your beliefs?
Furthermore, why do you allow it to "tick you off"? [Matthew 5:43-47]. So go easy, my friend. It'll be ok.
{"commentId":93620,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"mott"}
- 3 votes
{"commentId":97402,"authorDomain":"Whatsnew"}
Now just one minute Gowster. I believe that Mary was a perpetual virgin, but even I won't say she never though about having sex(I also believe she was sinless, but to think about having sin is not inherently lustful, after all)
Further, while I would never buy one of these shirst, and would ask a friend not to, I defend the right of anybody who wants to buy and wear this (though things might get a bit hot after you die...
{"commentId":97402,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"Whatsnew"}
- 1 vote
{"commentId":93750,"authorDomain":"benno"}
Perhaps one should think of the joke in feminist terms? Demanding chastity of girls (I won't believe as many boys as girls adhere, with girls it's a physical issue) is patriarchal suppression. It's factual (no source at hand) that some cheat by having "alternative" sex and/or a virginity operation before marriage. This joke is addressing that issue.
{"commentId":93750,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"benno"}
- 3 votes
#4 - Wed Apr 12, 2006 4:55 AM EDT{"commentId":10425929,"authorDomain":"polishcatolicopolishcatolico"}
Sometimes it's intriguing to hear a devil's advocate. But this case is as low and abominable as it's possible. Mixing of chastity and sexually perverse may only worsen people - but you probably think it will serve their "emancipation". Emancipation from what? From God, virtue, good taste? Apparently. You will rot in hell if you mingle too often with apology of devilish. Just warning.
{"commentId":10425929,"threadId":"33632","contentId":"159681","authorDomain":"polishcatolicopolishcatolico"}
#5 - Mon Nov 2, 2009 11:50 AM EST{"canLink":false,"threadId":"33632","isPrivate":false}
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